For the past 30 years I've been completely fascinated by the internet and involved with creating internet experiences. I've been so thrilled about the access we all gave to each other across borders and far beyond our little neighborhoods and even gave each other access to buy stuff from one another across borders and sort of enabled all of us to become extremely selective about what we buy, where we buy it from, and what particular products we would favor. Over those years that the internet has mainstreamed, a lot has changed, but there are also certain things that just really remain the same also in e-commerce, which creates this interesting situation where it's not perfectly clear to even people working day and night in e-commerce what has changed, what is about to change, what is sort of actively changing right now. I think it's relatively easy to talk about very futuristic changes that may or may not happen. Right now there's a lot of blog posts about how e-commerce is going beyond the website, for example, and it's fairly easy to sort of follow and make some of those predictions about what is likely to happen with AI shopping beyond the website. But all of those things are also just a little bit ahead in the future still. So I'm super interested in talking about the changes that are happening right here and now, which is what this conversations format is all about. We want to go deeper into the stuff that is relevant and changing right here and now. All right. So today's guest has an incredible journey. I'm here with Morten Kabowski-Kir, who is the co-founder of the well-known e-commerce brand Luxus Baby. Morten is also a former police officer. He's a Robinson contestant and so much more. And it's just fantastic to have you here to talk about what's changing in e-commerce and hear your journey. Thank you very much. Excellent. I wanted to just start by asking. So you've been working in e-commerce for a very long time now. So what gets you up from the bed every morning and, you know, you keep going after so many years? I think I just like the development of companies and human beings generally to see things from a small case to a bigger case, see the developments. Nice. Can you tell us a little bit about the whole journey of Luxus Baby? And maybe just if you could start with, for those listening that are not Danish, that word Luxus Baby, what does it mean? How do you pronounce it? What's the story behind that? Yeah, the story behind is I was a former police officer and my wife was a store manager and we got twins, the first of our three children. And when we have twins, we have a need for baby clothes. And we talked about that it was a bit difficult to buy the right things in one web shop. So we have to pick the good web shops. Something from here and here and here. And then my wife asked me why. I just hope there was one store that had all the things I wanted to have. All the right things. Brains or special things. So we think let's make a web shop where it's all in one place. But not too much. You know, because I asked my wife then, why don't you just buy it at Zalando or something. And then she said something that I remember that Zalando was, it felt too big to shop at. You know, when if you want to buy body stockings, then you have maybe, I don't know, thousands different body stockings to choose between. Then we wanted to just have maybe 20 of the right ones, the right colors, the right qualities. And yeah. And when was that? When did you start the business? Yeah, it's 11 years ago now. It's the company's 11th birthday today. It's this year. Yeah. And you have now departed from daily operations from the company? Yeah. When me and my wife have worked together for 10 years, I think we needed something else to talk about. When we got home and I got our dinner. So my wife is now the CEO of Luxus Baby. I'm just the board member. And I have one monthly meeting with the leadership board. Nice. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about the sort of the entire journey of Luxus Baby. Can you sort of talk us through some of the highlights of how did you sort of grow that brand? You know, you're talking to what it is today? Yeah. The main thing for us was to make the shop who wasn't, don't need to feel big. And we need to, you know, I think it's very important to be a customer. We need to know who's behind the company. They need to feel the DNA. They need to feel the passion from the co-founders. So we were, we used a lot of energy of that, that part. And also the customer service was the main thing for us. We saw that lots of different web shops has had the customer service from morning to five o'clock, six o'clock maybe. But we always had from seven o'clock to 10 or 11 o'clock in the night. We want to be there when the customer needed us. So that was the main, main, main thing for, for us. And also I need to say that my wife has a great gift to, to find the things who are going to be the new things, the new upcoming brands. To some brand that you got no data, who's, who's going to be the next one, the next big one. But my wife got that feeling. She spotted, you know, lots of people know Kongs Lloyd, Leawood. We were, we were, we were one of the first ones to, to, to, to have that kind of brands. And my wife just saw that those brands to be, to be something. So. Yeah. If you, if customer service is so important to you, and it has been from the beginning, when you had to scale that, how did you train the people who would do customer support that and work customer service? There must be a lot of sort of discipline around how to communicate to. Yeah. Absolutely. Shopper. I was, I was, I was always very close to the customer service. It was a very, very hard deal to, to bring the enthusiasm from the, from our staff to the customers. It was a very hard, very hard department in the company to, to get that high level because you, you needed to find the, the customer stars. Yeah. We really had the, the right DNA to, you know, we want to find the people who, who just thought that anything wasn't good enough for the customers. So you really need to be there. So I think it was, we, we set the, a high level. We, we want to do very high level customer service and we wanted to find the right people. Yeah. At the same time, put those things together. What are the, what are the basics around the company now? How many countries or in what countries do you operate? How big is the business now? How many people are you? Yeah. Those kinds of things. We're like, we're about a hundred employees. And the main market is, it's Denmark. We just had three years when, because we changed our web shop to a new one last year. The web shop we had before was the web shop we made in our company. in our living room. So it, it was outdated. We, it was very, not technical, good. So, so we have the, every time we opened a new market, it was just, we just, we got the, how do I say it? If we got Norway, Sweden, it just keep, we couldn't manage that actually. So we had to, we have to, we have to, if we needed to scale the luxury paper, we need some, some new systems. Okay. So we, it wasn't that good to be in, other countries actually. So, so we, we, we made a Swedish web shop, an Norwegian web shop, a Chinese web shop, a Korean web shop, .com web shop. But every time we did that, we just made new steps in the company, a new areas to work at. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That, I've heard you talk about that story about South Korea. Yeah. Could you maybe tell? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's a very good story because I was just, look at where, where, where, where our orders come from. And, uh, I saw, uh, some orders come from Korea. And, um, I was wondering, how's that? And, um, in the same time, there was, uh, Korean employee who wanted a job. Uh, and she wanted to, um, to be at, I look, so baby. And we didn't have that much, uh, turnover to, to Korea. And I said to her, you can be here about for a few months and maybe you can start to, to write to all the Korean customers, uh, to, how, why did you shop at Luxor Baby? And where do you live? And what do you need? And just, just to get them close to the customers and know the area, who, who the customer is. So basically it was, uh, the way that the Luxor Baby, pretty much the same thing we did in Denmark, maybe close to the customer from day one. And you just, she did nothing else but two months and just talked to, uh, Korean customers and, uh, you just developed and it's a very interesting market today. And that degree of, of customer service, that, that is still basically the heart of, of why the business is successful. Absolutely. Absolutely. I just think that's, that's one of the ways to, to be a bit different from the real big ones. And, uh, and they, they feel the customers. We, uh, we are, uh, uh, I think it's, uh, it's, I think there's lots of big companies who need to do better at customer service. Yeah. That's a big thing for us. Yeah. I remember buying books from Amazon, I don't know, in 1999 or something like that. There were 2000 maybe. And they had incredible and very personal customer service at that time. Uh, but I mean, obviously the complete opposite to what you would experience today. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, but at the time it was pretty, pretty amazing experience that you would get that sort of quick and personal response. I can very much relate to, to that. We also started to, uh, to write personal notes for every customer. We just took that away from about two years ago. Okay. But when we have about, um, a thousand orders per day, uh, we still wrote every personal note. It, it, it, it wasn't just, uh, Hey, thanks for the order. I hope to see you soon. It was, hi Morten. Thanks for the order. Hope you be glad for the blue jeans for your little son. If you know son, have a great day, have a great summer or great or something. So it must have taken quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I think we were about seven employees who just had every day and read about a thousand personal notes. But at the time we also needed to, to rethink that. Now we just, we still have the, the cards, but we have a, a QR code. Uh, and when you, uh, you scan the QR code, uh, and when you, uh, you scan the QR code, uh, it become a video from the, from me or my wife or something, I'll play you with you. Hey, thanks for the order. Uh, just, uh, a bit short movie. Nice. Yeah. Well, what do you think you've personally learned from that whole experience of running the company to words at, uh, today after you step down and that branding and the personality and the DNA of the company is so important. No matter what you sell, is it paper clothes or coffee or something that's, it just needs to be there. Yeah. When, when the, when the, when the, the competition is very high, it's, it's, it is in children's clothes and you need to, to do something better than the other ones. So you just become another big one without personal DNA. Yeah. Okay. And I wanted to talk to you about one other completely sort of different, uh, topic around what's changing in, in e-commerce, um, right now. Uh, I think, um, so many things have been more or less the same in, e-commerce for many years, but there's also a lot of changes happening, of course. And I'm not so interested in, um, sort of futuristic predictions around what will happen, but more about what's changing right here. And, and now, um, there's a lot of sort of, um, chatter or discussions around retail media about, um, allowing your vendors to, uh, buy ad placements basically on e-commerce stores. Um, and there's a bunch of other things going on. But it feels to me like that whole brand DNA part is also critical right now for your business. Um, how do you see that whole landscape right now? What what's changing that is actually important right now? Yeah. The branding part is so important. We, uh, we talked a lot about, we were very good at this, uh, the first of five years and that then we just became good, but, but not that good. Uh, the marketing team right now have very focused on the branding part we need to the customer needs to feel who we are and how the customer how the employees are who they are and what we're doing on Friday and how we celebrate things they need to learn the company more privately I think so we do lots of that kind of stuff maybe some kind of fun stuff as well but the DNA and the passion and what kind of company you are dealing with I guess you meet other e-commerce CEOs or chairmen from time to time I guess you must meet people that don't have the same appreciation for brand or DNA of the company like you call it how do you explain brand to those people what is it exactly that you guys are doing better than most? I think just we are we're just fascinated about doing good stuff we're just fascinated to make customers glad we are selling children clothes but we need some super glad customers and that's our passion too and also it just we can't just have glad customers we need glad employees as well have a great culture at the company as well so it has to be a great place to work and that's also an important thing does that even come before the numbers basically it sounds like that yeah yeah actually so personally I like to shop places where I know it stands for something good do something good things not just for the employees but also to the things around the company yeah so how do you shop yourself online do you look for companies that are like that where you yourself yeah when I see something yeah when I feel the maybe the who are the owners behind the company and why did it start the values of the company I think it's very important for me when I when I when I shop at places and is that becoming more yeah important because of the big marketplaces and their dominance and so forth definitely yeah okay yeah how about retail media is one particular aspect I wanted to ask you about is that something on the radar for you oh every time I talked about I'm I'm a bit sad because I'm a bit sad because we're it's a very big thing and we're also looking at for quite some time right now but we haven't started but but it's very interesting and of course it's a great thing for us to to get some partnerships through my retail media yeah yeah and and so what has been holding you back around that is that the sort of the the relationships to the to the vendors where you buy products yeah I think we need to have the right concept so we still get so we still get the good relationships to our to our brands yeah yeah yeah yeah that makes sense that it's the sort of it needs to follow the same DNA as everything else you do yeah yeah yeah the right concept for for luxus maybe I think all right find that all right and is there anything else that you see that's changing these days it doesn't need to be sort of technologically or could be anything about e-commerce that you feel that you feel is important to keep track of or right now yeah we see everybody think of recycling we look at baby needs also to to focus on that we haven't done quite that much yet but but it's it's going to be a thing for us as well and is it is it becoming sort of a demand from from your shoppers as well yeah I think so and I think it's very fair to demand it so we we need to be the responsibility from from for the environment as well so we just need to find out where to do it yeah yeah I've heard you say that you can also sort of as a business person be emotional or allow yourself to do that is that also the case like in front of your employees yeah together with them or what role is that playing for you to be authentic as a yeah I think it's it's not the same to be a leader nowadays than than it was for 14 years ago you need to you need to you need to it's not the same to be okay to be okay to be vulnerable and to show your feelings and and and and and that's that's the new way of viewing things to be yeah more authentic for the employees I think yeah if you were to sort of go deeper into explaining to someone maybe not without the same knowledge about it like yourself about what it is around e-commerce that fascinates you what would it be I mean I I I get yours that that the story was about let's build a web shop that has all of the right brands and not be too big like a Salando or but what what else is it about e-commerce that that's been fascinating for you I think is that you don't need to have a certain background to be a e-comer you can just you just need to have the right passion the right idea just do it right I was policeman my wife went nine years to school and right we don't have the right person they don't need to be a you just need to be a you just don't know we don't have the digital backgrounds or we just we just have the the the passion the the energy the the the willing of yeah work a lot the first of the first years yeah yeah yeah were there any sort of um particular moments in the store in the whole business evolution where you sort of grew or took a really important sort of step from from one to a to another and where the business started growing and the way you wanted it to can you tell me about those sort of moments that were important for the business i think about the two years ago uh locus baby was was becoming too big for for me and my wife so we need to find some partners to to step in the the owner group and then we we sold something to uh to cool shop and yeah lehrman uh and they did a fantastic job for us the uh made the organization right the structure the the made i do the right choices when uh when we when things are becoming big and and yeah help us to to find the right system when you are starting from startup to scale up then you you need to take the right choices yeah and that was was a very important step for us because i think for me and louise we were just uh remember jan asked me where's the um economy chief that was me the the warehouse chief well that's also me everything was on on me and my wife's shoulders and as we said in denmark so um so we need to have the right structure of the company and that was very helpful it sounds like there must have been um examples of you know you guys struggling a bit in the years leading up to that big decision yeah what was what was what was these sort of what were the problems that you were facing as you scaled up which we just i think the overview of the company the the warehouse was a bit too big and we have about 200 employees at that time and with no uh no structure no no system no uh yeah we didn't have a plan actually we have a strategy in our in our heads but what but but we didn't have that uh the good plan for the next five years five years i think we just took one year at the time but we need a five-year plan or something yeah yeah what what about that now then the five-year plan from now it's completely different yeah now it's much more professional we got the right we got a yeah the board the organization with different departments everything it's professional set up now so yeah it's just completely different company do you have an idea important to to have the right dna and culture as well sure do you have an idea about where the company is going then in the next five years from now if you ask me last year i was a bit uh i don't know because the all the system was very difficult for us to to get work uh we we changed everything we changed the webshop the europe system the pip system i don't know what the english word is every kind of system we we implemented yeah sure the three big system uh and now it's finished and now it's working uh and and and now it's uh now i can see it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's a business who can yeah become quite big now yeah the foundation yeah the foundation to grow exactly yeah that's super interesting all right so um uh if people would just sort of remember one thing from from this conversation and do you have sort of one message that really is the most important thing for for you yeah i think i will go for the uh always remember the the dna in your company and uh and that's that's that's that's become a thing when the company grow big it's it's it's it's difficult to uh to still keep keep keep with the the dna you had uh but but it's very important yeah yeah yeah what what i really like about that story of yours is that you actually have an origin story you know there's there's a real sort of passionate uh story about how the company came to be and how you had success and in several countries and grew the company grew the company to a pretty impressive uh size it's it's not so often that you meet companies with that sort of such a strong origin story that's great all right i want to uh thank you for for coming here it's been a pleasure to talk with you you too thanks